GLORIA,

The Adams Class DDG Confederation is now totally convinced that the Saginaw Valley group or Bay City, MI. has given up on the idea of trying to save the USS Adams DDG-2 in favor of the USS Edson DD-946 which is now located at the USS Intrepid Museum in New York. Seems the Intrepid group wants a larger ship that will be a bigger draw for tourist. $$$$$

If this is indeed the course the Saginaw Valley group has taken, the Adams Class DDG Confederation wants to know how we go about taking their place.

Members of the Confederation have been talking for the past three weeks very hot and heavy on this subject and putting together teams to attack the various details outlined on your NavSea, Ship Donation web site. If you at NavSea will allow us to be given a chance we are getting ourselves ready to take on this fight.

I have contacted Rich Angelini at Battleship Cove in Boston who offered us help and guideance once before and also gave us his observations on the condition of all the Adams Class Ships back in the fall of 2002.

As a start, we are putting together a team of former Adams Class crew members who live in and around the Philly area and would be willing and able to tour the remaining Adams Class Ships and report back to our Confederation. That of course is if we can get your approval to do so.

The one question that seems to keep coming up in all of our email talks within our group is the exact number of Adams Class Ships still in Philly and their condition. Some sources have told us that the Adams is far from being the best ship to pick for preservation and restoration. We were told back in the fall of last year that the Sellers and Lawrence were better choices. The Confederation has come to a general agreement that we will go for which ever ship is the best from all points of view. If it is the Adams as Leader of the Class then that is all the better.

Thanks for your time and help,
Tom Crosser
Adams Class DDG Confederation
8520 West Clarendon Ave.
Phoenix, Arizona, 85037
623-849-9526

TO ALL,
ONE OF OUR GROUP, TIM NIGHTINGALE, WENT TO BAY CITY, AND CAME AWAY WITH GOOD INFORMATION.

TIM'S EMAIL

Was in Bay City all day today trying to get information on the Saginaw Valley Naval Ship Museum and there bid for the USS Adams DDG-2. It is like pulling teeth. Anyways I talk to a person 'he wouldn't identify himself' at the museum by phone, I believe the museum is in his home, but he would no confirm anything saying only the US Navy ask him not to say anything yet. I took that with a grain of salt. The next person I talk to was Tony Dearing Editor of the Bay City Times, and also a former officer of the Saginaw Valley Naval Ship Museum. He told me " as of three weeks ago the group turned in a letter say they were no longer going after the USS Adams DDG-2 that they were now looking at the USS Edson DD946 because it would save them millions of $$ because the Edson was already fitted as a Museum. Here are names and numbers I got why I was up there.



Saginaw Valley Naval Ship Museum



Website: www.cfadams.org



Officers:

Mike Kegley (989) 686-3125 (Former Sailor)

Michael J. Buda (989) 684-6208 (Former City Mayor)

Tony Dearing (989) 895-8551 (Editor of Bay City Times) This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.



Bay City Times

311 5th St

Bay City, Michigan 48708-5853



Let me also say they do not yet have a birth for the ship. The city has acquired some land along the river but it is presently filled with old abandon building and it would take them some time to clear and fix up the prosperity and put in a slip for what ever ship they were to get.



OH ya it was also mention that they are looking at the former presidential yacht the Defoe which was built in Bay City by Defoe ship building. The said it has just come on the market someplace in Florida.



I will be going back up to Bay City in the near future to take pictures and such, if there is anything else the groups wants me to look at let me know



Tim Nightingale

USS Buchanan DDG-14 1969-1971

USS Edson DD946 1971-1972



THANKS TO TIM FOR A JOB WELL DONE.

TO ALL,
Here is an correction to an update from earlier.

Hi Everyone,

Just thought I should clarify a few points here. BTW, I'm having trouble sending this out, something about too many recipients, so please bear with me - I'm going to have to send duplicates of this to groups of names.

At 00:40 11/12/03 -0500, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. wrote:

Was in Bay City all day today trying to get information on the Saginaw Valley Naval Ship Museum and there bid for the USS Adams DDG-2. It is like pulling teeth.

This doesn't surprise me in the least. hehehe


Anyways I talk to a person 'he wouldn't identify himself' at the museum by phone, I believe the museum is in his home,

That is correct. There is no actual museum at this point, Mike operates out of his home (that's where the 800 number rings in at). I'm speculating a bit here but I suspect Tim talked to Mike himself. Mike doesn't have any kids living at home any more, it's just him and his wife. So while there might have been someone visiting, it's more likely Mike was on the phone.


but he would no confirm anything saying only the US Navy ask him not to say anything yet. I took that with a grain of salt.

I don't buy this, the Navy mostly likely doesn't give a hoot. The only two I can think of who may want to keep this hush-hush are Mike and the General who runs the museum in New York where the Edson is now.


Let me also say they do not yet have a birth for the ship. The city has acquired some land along the river but it is presently filled with old abandon building and it would take them some time to clear and fix up the prosperity and put in a slip for what ever ship they were to get.

This is TOTALLY INCORRECT. I suspect Tim may have looked in the wrong spot or something. The SVNSM has a written agreement with the city for the Davidson Slip. It is right in front of the Bay City community center, on the west side of the river. This slip is visible in the aerial photo I did (which is still up on the web site, I think). I also personally arranged for the SCUBA divers who explored the bottom of the slip a few years back. There is a sign at the head of the slip about the project. There is no "old abandon building". I'm not sure what Tim was looking at (perhaps the old Defoe Shipyard) but it wasn't the right thing. The Davidson Slip used to be a drydock where they built the wooden ships that piled the Great Lakes, supposedly the largest wooden ship ever built was built here. It is designated as a historic spot and that was another reason why putting the Adams here had special significance - our needs coincided with what the city wanted to do with the slip.


OH ya it was also mention that they are looking at the former presidential yacht the Defoe which was built in Bay City by Defoe ship building. The said it has just come on the market someplace in Florida.

This is true (it was announced in the local newspapers), but I don't "think" the SVNSM has any part of this as a group. Some of the board members might also be among the "leaders" the newspaper article mentioned but I think that is as far as it goes.


I will be going back up to Bay City in the near future to take pictures and such, if there is anything else the groups wants me to look at let me know

If Tim or anyone else is coming up this way, I would be glad to meet with them and show them around the area. I'm retired and have plenty of spare time unless Murphy's Law happens to strike. I'm not going to put my phone number in an open message like this but my email address is here, all they'd have to do is contact me and we could set up the meet. My name is also in the Midland phone book. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

That's all from Midland.

Jim Bosworth

TO ALL FORMER ADAMS CLASS CREW MEMBERS,

I HAD A CONVERSATION WITHIN THE PAST HOUR WITH GLORIA CARVALHO AT THE NAVSEA SHIP DONATION PROGRAM, INACTIVE SHIP PROGRAM OFFICE. WE DISCUSSED SEVERAL ITEMS. I HAD MISREAD HER LATEST EMAIL FROM YESTERDAY NOVEMBER 19, 2003.

HERE IS THE OFFICIAL WORD AS OF TODAY,
NOVEMBER 20, 2003.

# 1. IT IS TRUE THAT THE SAGINAW VALLEY GROUP HAS WITHDRAWN THEIR DONATION APPLICATION FOR THE EX-ADAMS DDG-2.

# 2. AT THIS TIME, THE NAVY HAS NOT DETERMINED WHICH DDG WILL CONTINUE ON DONATION HOLD.

# 3. SINCE THE NAVY HAS NOT DETERMINED WHICH DDG WILL CONTINUE ON DONATION HOLD IT WOULD BE PREMATURE FOR YOUR GROUP TO TAKE SAGINAW VALLEY'S PLACE AT THIS TIME.

# 4. THE NAVY WILL HAVE AN ANNUAL MEETING IN THE SPRING (MAYBE MAY) AT WHICH TIME SHIPS ON DONATION HOLD OR REQUESTS TO PLACE SHIPS ON DONATION HOLD ARE DISCUSSED AMONG OTHER NAVY MATTERS.
THE MEETING IS A CLOSED MEETING.

# 5. THE ONLY THREE ADAMS CLASS SHIPS STILL IN PHILLY ARE THE ADAMS, LAWRENCE, AND BARNEY. THE SELLERS IS GONE. THE CHANCE OF ANOTHER ADAMS CLASS SHIP BEING GONE BY THE MAY MEETING IS 50-50.

I ASKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT SOME OF YOU HAVE SEEN THE ADAMS CLASS SHIPS FROM THE HIGHWAY AND THEY APPEAR TO BE STRIPPED TOPSIDE. GLORIA SAID THERE ARE ITEMS STORED INSIDE THE SHIP. I REMEMBER BEING BACK ON THE BUCHANAN IN SAN DIEGO IN THE 70s FOR A RESERVE TWO WEEKS AND GOING ABOARD A WWII DE TO REMOVE ITEMS FOR THE CHIEF ENGINEER. RUNNING LIGHTS, SIGNAL LIGHTS, JACK STAFFS AND MANY OTHER ITEMS WERE STORED BELOW DECK. SOME ITEMS DOWN AS LOW AS THE REFER BOXES.

I ASKED ABOUT THE 5" GUNS BEING CUT AND THE SPARE BARRELS THAT MIKE KEGLEY SAID HE HAD. GLORIA SAID THE BARRELS WERE CUT. SHE DID NOT KNOW WHERE OR HOW MIKE GOT SPARE BARRELS. MAYBE OUR FRIEND KNOWS THIS INFORMATION, WE MIGHT NEED THEM.

GLORIA SAID THAT NO ONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABOARD THE ADAMS SINCE IT WAS PUT ON DONATION HOLD TO REMOVE ANYTHING.

GETTING SOMEONE FROM OUR GROUP ABOARD THE ADAMS OR ANY OTHER ADAMS CLASS SHIP APPEARS NOT TO BE POSSIBLE AT THIS TIME. GLORIA DID GIVE ME THE NAME OF THE PERSON WHO DID LOOK AT ADAMS, BARNEY, AND MAYBE LAWRENCE FOR THE BARNEY GROUP. HE DOES THIS FOR A LIVING AND SHOULD KNOW FIRST HAND WHICH SHIP IS THE BEST FOR PRESERVATION AND RESTORATION. I WILL ATTEMPT TO CONTACT HIM ASAP.

THAT IS THE TRUE SKINNY, THE READ DOPE, THE HONEST SCUTTLEBUTT.

I AM GOING TO CONTACT THE BARNEY GROUP AND SEE ABOUT JOINING FORCES BEFORE WE ALL STAND AND WATCH THE SCRAPPERS.

TOM CROSSER

TO ALL,

SO, NOW WE GET READY TO TACKLE THIS EFFORT HEAD ON.

EACH OF OUR 23 SHIPS NEEDS TO SELECT A PERSON TO REPRESENT THAT SHIP ON A BOARD. FROM THAT BOARD, WE NEED A CHAIR, A VICE CHAIR OR TWO OR MORE, A MONEY PERSON, AND A SECRETARY. THIS IS AT LEAST A START. THERE WERE FOUR ADAMS CLASS SAILORS WHO STARTED THE ADAMS CLASS DDG CONFEDERATION AND THEY ARE MY CHOICES FOR STARTING A NUCLEUS TO BUILD AROUND.

THE NAVY IS HOLDING AN ANNUAL MEETING IN THE SPRING, (MAY) AT WHICH TIME ONE OF THE ITEMS TO BE DISCUSSED WILL BE THE STATUS OF THOSE SHIPS ON DONATION HOLD AS WELL AS THE STATUS OF ALL SHIPS IN THE RESERVE FLEET.

THE ADAMS DDG-2 IS CURRENTLY ON "DONATION HOLD STATUS." THE OTHER SHIPS OF THE ADAMS CLASS IN THE PHILLY RESERVE FLEET ARE THE LAWRENCE DDG-4 AND THE BARNEY DDG-6. ALL OTHER ADAMS CLASS SHIPS THAT DID NOT LEAVE US CONTROL WERE EITHER SCRAPPED, SUNK, OR CONVERTED TO POWER BARGES.

THE SAGINAW VALLEY GROUP DROPPED THEIR EFFORT TO ACQUIRE THE ADAMS DDG-2 BACK IN OCTOBER OF 2003. THERE IS NO EFFORT CURRENTLY UNDERWAY TO SAVE THE LAWRENCE BUT I UNDERSTAND THERE IS A GROUP TRYING TO GET THE NAVY TO PUT THE BARNEY ON DONATION HOLD SO THEY CAN WORK ON GETTING THAT SHIP FOR A MARITIME MUSEUM IN MIAMI, FL.

THE PEOPLE AT NAVSEA HAVE TOLD ME THAT THE NAVY WILL NOT CONSIDER TWO SHIPS OF THE SAME CLASS FOR DONATION HOLD STATUS. IT DOES APPEAR POSSIBLE THAT THE NAVY MIGHT REPLACE THE ADAMS WITH THE BARNEY AT THEIR MAY MEETING IF THE ADAMS CLASS DDG CONFEDERATION DOES NOT BAND TOGETHER AND PROVE TO NAVSEA THAT WE REALLY WANT THE ADAMS.

I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THE ADAMS IS THE BEST OF THE LOT IF WE ARE LOOKING ONLY AT THE ADAMS CLASS SHIPS STILL IN US CONTROL. THE SAME MARINE ENGINEER LOOKED AT ALL OF THE SHIPS AND DID THE WRITE UPS FOR BOTH THE SAGINAW VALLEY GROUP WHO HAD BEEN AFTER THE ADAMS AND THE MIAMI GROUP WHO IS AFTER THE BARNEY.

ONLY ONE PERSON (RICK BENNETT) AS SEEN ANY OF THE GREEK SHIPS AND I AM NOT SURE HOW MUCH HE WAS ALLOWED TO SEE ON HIS TRIP TO GREECE LAST SUMMER.

RICK, DO YOU REALLY THINK THE GREEK GOVERNMENT WOULD JUST GIVE US A SHIP?

WE MUST ALL REMEMBER THAT THERE ARE ONLY TWO WAYS TO GET AN EX-US SHIP BACK TO OUR SHORE. TELL ME THE SHIP IS SEA WORTHY AND READY TO SAIL AND YOU CAN COUNT ME IN AS PART OF THE CREW TO BRING HER HOME. THE OTHER OPTION IS A TUG TO PULL HER HOME. I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THE US COAST GUARD MUST APPROVE HER ENTERING US WATERS IN EITHER CASE. MONEY WOULD BE NEEDED FOR FOOD AND FUEL AND TO GET A CREW TO GREECE OR TO HIRE A TUG. AT THIS POINT IN TIME AND WITHOUT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, I WOULD VOTE TO SPEND THAT MONEY ON A SHIP FROM PHILLY. NOW IN MY DREAMS, I HAVE NEVER SAILED THE ATLANTIC AND IT WOULD BE NICE TO SAY I HAD.

WE MUST ALSO REMEMBER THAT A SHIP COMING BACK FROM A FOREIGN COUNTRY HAS ONLY ONE CHANCE TO MAKE IT AS A MUSEUM SHIP AND IF IT DOES NOT IT WILL BE SCRAPPED.

THERE WERE OTHER ADAMS CLASS SHIPS THAT GROUPS TRIED TO SAVE AND I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM THOSE GROUPS ABOUT JUST HOW FAR THEY GOT AND IF ANYONE IN THOSE GROUPS HAS IDEAS ABOUT LOCATIONS THAT MIGHT WANT THE ADAMS. IF THERE WAS A GROUP TRYING FOR THE ADAMS PRIOR TO THE SAGINAW VALLEY GROUP, I WOULD LIKE VERY MUCH TO HEAR FROM THEM ALSO. ANY GROUP THAT TRIED AND FAILED WILL AT LEAST HAVE LEARNED WHAT DOES NOT WORK.

TALKING ABOUT THE GROUP CHAT ON THE 17th, I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS: I WILL ASSUME THAT THIS IS DONE BY EVERYONE TYPING WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY. TOO BAD WE cannot AFFORD A CONFERENCE CALL. MAYBE LATER. WILL THE THINGS WE SAY BE SAVED ON THE CHAT SITE SO WE CAN REVIEW ALL OF IT A DAY OR TWO LATER? IF NOT, DO WE HAVE A PERSON, SAILOR, WIFE, OR OTHER THAT CAN TAKE SHORT HAND NOTES AND THEN POST FOR ALL TO SEE IN A DAY OR TWO ON THE YAHOO SITE? CAN WE RUN A CHAT DRILL BEFORE THE REAL THING NEXT SATURDAY?

I HAVE BEEN GOING BACK OVER EMAILS RECEIVED FROM MANY OF YOU SO I CAN PUT AS MUCH INTO THIS EMAIL AS POSSIBLE.

THE MARINE ENGINEER WHO HELPED THE SAGINAW VALLEY GROUP PUT THEIR EFFORT TOGETHER HAS COPIES OF A LOT IF NOT ALL OF THE PAPERWORK HE HELPED DRAFT FOR PRESENTING TO NAVSEA. I'M SURE ALL OF THIS IS AVAILABLE TO US BUT IT WILL MOST LIKELY NOT BE FREE. FREE OR NOT THIS MAN CAN SAVE US A LOT OF TIME. THIS PERSON ALSO HAS A LOT OF THE SHIP'S DRAWINGS AND BOOKS SUCH AS THE MANUALS FOR CONDUCTING ENGINEERING DRILLS.

HMAS PERTH DDG-38 WAS BUILT FOR HMAS, IS A DIVE WRECK.

HMAS HOBART DDG-39 WAS BUILT FOR HMAS, IS A DIVE REEF.

HMAS BRISBANE DDG-41 BUILT FOR HMAS, WAS DECOMMISSIONED IN 2001.



USS BERKELEY DDG-15 (DDG 221 Themistocles) Decommissioned from Hellenic Navy on 7/29/2002


USS JOSEPH STRAUSS DDG-16 (DDG 220 Formion) Decommissioned from Hellenic Navy on 2/18/2002




USS WADDELL DDG-24 (DDG 219 Nearchos) Decommissioned from Hellenic Navy on 7/18/2003




These ships were sold to Greece, were recently decommissioned, and are at Souda Bay,

Crete, where the three vessels will remain in the decommissioned vessels area, pending disposal plans.





USS SEMMES DDG-18 (DDG 218 Kimon)



This ship was sold to Greece and is still active, to the best of our knowledge.







GERMANY HAD 3 SHIPS BUILT HERE FOR THEM AND SINCE I WASTED 2 YEARS ON HIGH SCHOOL GERMAN, I HAVE NO IDEA OF THEIR



STATUS.



IT IS 0350 AND I'M TIRED, GOOD NIGHT!

Tom Crosser

<font color="red">This is text taken from the Saginaw Valley Naval Ship Museum's website</font id="red">

www.cfadams.org/index.htm

The USS Charles F. Adams, DDG-2

To those who have visited this web page in the past:

We will be closing this web page because of the change of plans that the Saginaw Valley Naval Ship Museum has made.



Because of the ever-increasing cost of our efforts to obtain the ex-USS Charles F. Adams DD-2, we have decided to change our focus. We will now concentrate our efforts to bring the ex-USS Edson, DD-946 to Bay City, Michigan. This will be a living museum to commemorate the destroyer's sailors and the rich shipbuilding past of Bay City.

We understand and realize that there will be people that will be unhappy with us for switching ships, but this is strictly a business decision. The cost of Edson vs. the cost of Adams was the main reason for this change. We will save around $1.5 to $2 million by changing ships.

The Edson will be used as an educational tool to teach the youth of our community and our state of the cost of our freedom. They must learn that the FREE in freedom did not come for FREE.

We will be starting a new page for the Edson soon. Please watch for the new address that will be posted on this page.

Michael J. Kegley, President S.V.N.S.M.




Old Sailors of the USA, unite!
There's one last battle left to fight.
If you'll chip in a dollar or more,
we'll bring the USS Edson to our shore.
With lots of hard work and a little luck,
We'll sail the ship with the help of your buck.
It's an important memory of our past,
and with your donation we'll make it last.

Send your tax deductible donation to:
Saginaw Valley Naval Ship Museum Committee
3372 E. Woodland Drive
Bay City, MI 48706-1670

Call us at: (989) 686-3125 or 1-888-820-SHIP

Fax us at: (989) 686-0725

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Announcements/Upcoming Events
The Board of Directors are currently discussing various changes in its long range plans. Information will be posted here when available.
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Contacts:


Saginaw Valley Naval Ship Museum Committee
3372 E. Woodland Drive
Bay City, MI 48706-1670
(989) 686-3125
1-888-820-SHIP
Fax (989) 686-0725
Michael Kegley, President; This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Cornell Lugthart, Jr., Vice-President
Mary Kegley, Secretary
Richard Janke, Treasurer


Board of Directors

William Defoe, Honorary Chairman
Jack MacNeil
Mike Buda
Carol C. Hardy
Cornell Lugthart, Jr.
Dr. Ray Keech, Director of Education
Don Pletzke
Richard Janke
Christopher Schaefer
Tony Dearing
Michael Kegley

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